Footnotes is a podcast by SULS hosted by students, for students, presenting new and intriguing stories about the law. Here are the highlights from their most recent interview with Gilbert + Tobin, featuring Kristie Barton (Clerk and Graduate Program Manager), Bryce Craig (Lawyer - Technology + Digital) and Lauren Ziegelaar (Legal Transformation Lawyer) about clerkships and graduate roles, how the delivery of legal services has changed in the face of new and innovative legal technologies, and the skills young lawyers need to equip themselves for the legal industry of the future.
Do you have any tips or tricks for clerkship applications and interviews having gone through the process yourself and, Kristie, been on the other side of that? What advice would you give?
BC: I think it's very important to show your interest in the firm you're applying for, as well as a willingness to learn and contribute to growth. A keen clerk is the best clerk.
LZ: I totally agree. Do your research around the firm you're applying and have a genuine interest in the firm and the work that you're doing; but also have genuine interests outside of that. Don't be afraid to talk about the fact that you love running marathons or horse riding. You want to use your judgment about when to raise those things, but don't feel like you have to be this cookie-cutter person who doesn’t love anything but the law.
KB: In terms of applications, tailor your application to the film that you're applying for. Try to find exactly what it is about each firm that really resonates with you or excites you and put it in the application. You’ll definitely get further in the process.
The clerkship process is, obviously, very competitive. What advice would you have for people who may be unsuccessful this year?
KB: Clerkship may be the most linear pathway into a graduate program, but it's definitely not the be-all and end-all. The recruitment process offers such a unique opportunity for students to connect with firms and start building their networks by identifying people that they would like to have as mentors or contacts down the track. That is hugely invaluable.
What do you see as being the role of technology and innovation in the delivery of legal services, drawing on your own experiences?
LZ: Great question! I was really lucky to work with the legal services innovation team as a graduate. The biggest learning point for me was that technology isn’t going to replace people; it just augments the way we deliver our legal services. I think what we’re going to see is more and more law firms and legal practice groups operating on the model, where it’s not a pure labour market but a labour plus capital market.
At the moment, we just charge for our time and add disbursements such as court fees or other fees but we’re going to see the way we price and charge our work change. We are moving towards a market where law firms are providing legal advice but also tools, technologies and platforms that can be licensed out to clients. We are moving towards a model where the time of the lawyers is just one element of the services that the firm offers.
BC: Lawyers have always occupied a number of roles for their clients. They are expected to be commercially-minded and risk-averse and think about the ‘people’ element of how a decision is going to impact the client. Now, we're also expected to have competency with technology and data and applying that to matters. All the large matters I've worked on this year have some elements of data management and technology along with digital teamwork help bring clarity to those matters. That's just one example of how technology is becoming another part of the multipronged role we are expected to fill for our clients.
KB: We need people now that are adaptable and open to new technologies and solutions and have a level of technological literacy. We certainly get some queries about how technologies like artificial intelligence are having an impact. I think lawyers are definitely not going away anytime soon, but we are upskilling our lawyers on qualities such as project management, data analytics and design thinking. We talk about this ‘T-shaped lawyer’ where traditional legal knowledge and skills are in the middle and non-legal skills are becoming increasingly important.
BC: The T-shaped Model is saying that you need to have some level of insight into many roles, but you don't have to be an expert. You don’t need to know how to code, for example, but you need to know how to talk to someone with those skills and to bridge that gap. Often the role that I see myself and other lawyers occupy is one of the conduits between those with very deep skills, and the request of the client.
LZ: There's also another model called the Delta Model. It has three sections: the process, the practice, and the people. The depth of your skills in those areas changes depending on what role you occupy. Your legal knowledge still forms the absolute foundation, but the additional skills you need evolve quickly. I think you guys are probably in the best position for it as early career professionals because you're incredibly adaptive and fast learners. I don't think it's something you need to be worried about as long as you're open to it.
Do you think COVID is going to be the tipping point for the law in the way that it approaches technological innovation? Now that we've gotten familiar with doing things digitally, do you think that this something that we are going to see in the future of law?
LZ: I think there are some elements that will change a lot but other elements are uncertain. Producing change in a law firm model has its own unique challenges. The things that speed up those processes are client-driven forces, internal forces such as staff and employees, and also external forces, such as a global pandemic. I think it will produce change, but it just depends on what areas will see that lasting change.
BC: I think one of the impacts brought about just by changing economic and financial circumstances will be that a lot more clients will be even more cost-conscious. I think it's going to bring newfound relevance to teams, like Lauren's, that routinely deal with how to optimize the delivery of legal services.
How do you think your experience with innovation has helped complement other aspects of your work as a lawyer?
LZ: Having exposure to so many parts of the firm made me a better lawyer in my role in the corporate team because I really understood how the firm works from a business perspective. As soon as you understand the business side of the firm, it makes sense as to why things are done a certain way, and you can find opportunities to solve inefficiencies.
If you want more insight from Kristie, Bryce and Lauren on the impacts of technology and innovation, have a listen to the full episode of ‘In Conversation with Gilbert + Tobin - Legal Innovation, Clerkships & the Future’ on your favourite podcast platform.